I thought about a lot of the ideas you guys gave me and I was going to cover them in this post, but after a discussion in guild chat, I thought this one might provide a little more discussions to get us through the weekend.
We line up, getting ready to raid Crossroads during closed beta!
Are you ready for another MMO? I’ve been playing WoW a long time. I’ve been lucky enough to be playing since closed beta and been able to experience pretty much everything Blizzard has put into this game.
The screenshot to the left was a raid towards the end of one of the phases of closed beta. We decided to head to Crossroads just for the sake of picking a fight. There were no rewards involved. No honor to be farmed.
I am sure there are a lot of folks that remember the old Tarren Mill/Southshore battles that went on. If you were looking for PvP, that’s were you went. It wasn’t till much later that we had the battlegrounds added.
And back then, raid gear was PvP gear. So when I was running around in my Might and Wrath gear with my Hand of Rag, I was beast cutting through people. Especially with 3 or 4 guild healers in raid gear in tow.
The game has evolved a lot over the years. Some for the better, some for the worse, all depending on who you ask. We won’t see another grind like Grand Marshall or High Warlord because Blizzard knew what was wrong with the system after they saw the true lengths people would go to get it. I feel lucky to have been able to see how Blizzard’s raids have evolved.
We had a server 2nd Ragnaros kill by roughly 30 minutes and proceeded to have every server first in Blackwing Lair. And Blizzard has become a lot better at their raid design in my opinion. As time has gone on, the game as become very homogenized. That’s the term I like to use for it.
If you are out there Nox, this is you and me buddy!
Putting buffs into categories, spreading them across various classes. “Bring the player, not the class.” Gone are the old arguments of Fear Ward being overpowered, the Horde having Windfury totems, the fine art of stance-dancing, and a lot of the other things “old players” would remember.
Ask your guild if they remember 40-man UBRS. Many will laugh and say “UBRS was for 15 people” or “that’s a 10 man instance now.” So few remember wiping on General Drakkisath with 40. :)
I have been lucky enough to have been able to play quite a few MMOs. Some in beta, some for money. I’ve been able to really narrow down what I am going to look for in my next MMO. I know what I like, what I don’t like, and what’s so crucial it’s not even an option.
The one MMO I had hoped would so well was Pirates of the Burning Sea. I’ve talked about this one before and I think it was great that a company did something unique and wasn’t trying to ride on the fantasy coattails of WoW. I am pretty sure there was never a meeting where they said “and this will part will be like WoW.”
The game had such a heavy emphasis on PvP and economy that I would have loved to read about certain a certain goblin’s adventures in this market. And unfortunately, after beta, I can’t say I supported the game as I kept on playing WoW.
Let's plunder some booty!
Their community was awesome too. At least during beta. I posted in a thread once, answering some rudimentary questions that had been answered I am sure dozens of times in other threads. But I answered them, as well did a few other posters.
A dev came in, commented how he loved the attitude, locked the thread, and had us all PM us our address so he could send us t-shirts. To this day I still have an awesome shirt I wear that says “Getting booty since 1720″ with the Pirates of the Burning Sea logo below it. I love that shirt. I just can’t wear it around my wife’s grandma. :)
WoW is such a dominant force that any future MMO will forever be held to it’s standards. I know it wasn’t the first MMO out there. But it was the first one for million of people and it will be forever what MMOs are compared to until a truly better one comes out.
Just think, whenever you start a new MMO you’ll think “Man, I wish I could (x) like I could in WoW.” That ‘x” might be UI customization, dual talents specialization (or the equivalent system for a new game), or who knows what.
One of my real-life friends and I were able to play the Lord of the Rings Online during it’s beta. While the game was pretty, I quit playing the beta because of how WoW spoiled me.
I remember getting a quest to go to Brill. I was suppose to talk to Strider. Woo, main character tie-ins for the win! So I travelled to Brill, and I zoned in to the inn. The innkeeper tells me that Strider isn’t there, but I should go talk to Gandalf. He’s upstairs in his room. So I zone upstairs. And then I zone into Gandalf’s room. I get a quest and read it over for about 10 seconds. I then proceed to zone out of the room, zone downstairs, and then zone back out into Brill.
My L2 Orc looks like he would crush Drotara in a fist fight.
I then logged out and never logged back in. I became spoiled by the seamless world we have in Azeroth. Continents and instances are the extent of WoW’s loading screens and we’ve become so accustomed to it the thought of having to deal with them is almost offensive.
But I have high hopes for new MMOs, and the requirements I have for them are pretty widespread. I want PvP. I enjoy PvP a lot, and right now I am unfortunately not getting my PvP enjoyment in the current WoW scene. I spent a good share of my late high school/early college years playing Counter-Strike. Good ‘ol 1.3 and 1.6. And then came the release of Steam, back when it sucked before it became awesome. It was a PvP game in the purest sense in my opinion.
I also enjoy raiding. I like the challenge. As much fun as defeating a live opponent is, a PvE encounter with a team where no person has to truly lose is a good feeling.
But now I have my wife playing MMOs. And she is most definitely not into PvP. Even with her new Ret Paladin who is quickly tearing through the Loremaster achievements she keeps to herself mostly. She likes selling her gathered goods, keeping almost any character she has with a few thousand gold to blow on fun items.
That is, of course, after she funds her epic flying mount, which she has done on both her level 80 characters without any help from me. We ran instances with her, did group quests, etc. In BC she came to Karazhan. But mostly she does with her characters whatever she wants.
So what do I want in my next MMO? Something like this:
- PvP in some capacity. I prefer open-world where there is a struggle for survival. High hopes for the Old Republic.
- Some type of high-end content that requires great player coordination. I don’t care if it is small numbers like 5 or 6, or large like 25 or 40.
- Player/Guild/Clan housing. I like the idea of you being able to have a permanent presence in the world you occupy in some capacity. Guild Wars had a good idea, as did Galaxies until all the worlds became empty wastelands. Maybe Guild Wars 2 will deliver.
- Robust crafting system. I like how reliant Burning Sea was on player-created items and I also liked how in Galaxies the quality of materials was an option for creating things.
- Out-of-game integration. Blizzard really stepped it up in this department. There is a lot of information available out of game through them as third-party sources. Places like the Armory, Wowhead, WoW-Heroes, Be.imba, etc. It’s large shoes to fill.
- Solo content. The biggest complaint I heard about FFXI was everything was grouped. If you were alone, there was nothing to do. And that’s unacceptable. Sometimes you just want to chill. And for players like my wife, the ability to do your own thing is important.
- A mostly seamless world. Like I said, I have been spoiled by WoW. Having content available with minimal loading. And in that same note…
- Customizable UI. You’ll never know how much you love it till you don’t have it.
Am I looking to quit WoW? Not at all. It’s still the best MMO out there. And to me there is no reason to jump ship until there is a better ship to go to.
So what about you? Are there new MMOs coming out that interest you? And if so, what elements are most important to you? I am curious to know what people find most important. There is one thing I know. When the time comes for me to move to a new MMO, this site will follow me there and hopefully I will be able to provide a new crowd of folks the same kind of information for whatever the new game may be.
Thoughts, comments, opinions, or answers to the above questions, leave ‘em here in the comments.
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Since I love BioWare games Im looking forward to SW: The Old Republic. But I think that Blizzard got so much experience now, that even if Wow gets beaten, their new MMO will rule again for years like Wow did.
As for the things I think its important:
- the world (When I started play Wow I already felt that Im “home”. Meeting Thrall was awesome feeling, and he even gave me quests at low lvl! But in TOR: no Revan, no Yoda, I wont know any NPCs there)
- and everything else you mentioned, PvP is not that important :P
Have you ever tried Eve Online? It has a lot of what you “desire”.
Although no custom UI.
I’m not playing it anymore, but man some of my best MMO times were in that game.
There is nothing like being in “raid” group PvPing for player controlled regions, in a ship that cost you weeks to get. Talk about adrenaline.
Aion, no doubt.
Massive RvR PVP (but controlled balance with PvPvE)
6 man raids. 25 man raids. Non instanced dungeons bringing Guild on Guild PvP into raiding.
Player/Guild/Clan housing. tick
Robust crafting system. tick, and its hard now.. not just expensive. it will mean something to be a master and it will give XP for doing it. So it isnt a pointless activity for people who are too poor to buy gold ;)
Out-of-game integration. This just takes a good community, blizzard themselves are s*** at out of game support.
Solo content. I’ve believe this will be ok, although not as much as wow.
And for players like my wife, the ability to do your own thing is important. With an environment as sexy as Aions, I would be happy just staring at it.
A mostly seamless world. Tick.
Customizable UI, Support will follow, as previously this is community driven as the API will be open.
I will try for sure, but probably not as ranger(hunter). Though they are shaping up to be, and designed to continue to be, the illest class in the game!
unF
I’ve hung up my crossbow now for 2 months. Ulduar just didn’t do it for me. I’d have to say Thzerika may have it right. I’m banking on Aion to possibly fit the bill for what you have set forward.
The post on the Greedy Goblin is echoing the sentiment I’ve seen on a lot of the WoW blogs I have read as of late and I think WoW’s popularity is begining to wane. I don’t expect it to die quickly. I can certainly see it being played well into the next decade, but I’d agree with a lot that the popularity has already peaked.
Back to future MMO’s Aion and Star Wars are the ones I’ll be looking forward to. I’ll also be playing Starcraft & Diablo when the new versions come out.
I love the Kotor games, and my other MMO experience has been primarily military combat sims (Airbirds on AOL/Kesmai GameStorm & WW2Online) with WoW being my first fantasy MMO.
I had high hopes for SW:Galaxy, but heard bad things about it, and was a little afraid of how they were going to tie it into all of the existing movie/book lore. The advantage to Kotor is that its before the movies and books that were spawned by the movies, allowing some flexibility in the stories, etc.
I think Bioware is like Blizzard in that they study the marketplace and take hints from what’s popular, but put their own twists on it. Everything I’m seeing out of BioWare for Old Republic looks phenominal, but I’m worried about their “after launch” support, since they have, in the past, been slow on patching their stand alone games. MMOs live and die with their “after launch” support. “Is the game stable?” the first few weeks its up, and “When is going to be fixed for ?” A few months later, people are going to be saying “There’s nothing else to do” after they beat the 2 or 3 “raid” dungeons or whatever they are setup as in Old Republic, or ” is too hard, we can’t get past boss x(3) of y(15)”.
I agreee that the WoW community is facing burnout. Looking at some of the bloggers that have stepped back from the community (BRK/Resto4Life are the big ones I know) because of RL/RW issues and the realization of how the game has affected those things, or how they don’t want the game to affect those things anymore. The question is whether or not new names and faces will “pick up the torch” set down by the long time bloggers and do as good a job or a better job, than they did.
That’s how a game community survives. Older players move on, while younger players step up and take over.
I am definitely going to be playing games like D3, Sc2, L4D2, etc. I always fit in those non-subscription games in.
I will definitely have to look into Aion. Truthfully I haven’t done that much research about it.
But I definitely agree with what you guys said. Even if WoW has “peaked”, when you are at the top of the highest mountain, it usually takes a long time to get down from that peak. :)
Aion.
Aion.
Aion.
Seriously, I’ve been waiting for this game for 2 years. There is a good chance, if it’s as good as it looks, I will quit WoW for Aion.
I tried Everquest, hated it. Played LotR, it was okay, but just didn’t feel right. I’ve tried a few of the free MMOs, I thought they were all terrible. Guild Wars always fascinated me, but I never got a chance to play it. Aion is going to be a WoW-killer, at least for me, if it’s as good as it looks in screenshots.
I am wow of the “old wow players” and i am still going strong. I have tryed warhammer eve online anarchey (think i spelled it wrong) guild wars and maple story and most of all none fill the kinda connection you make with other peeople that u do in wow.
I have been playing with some peeople for over 4 years, and alot of the momments i have had in the game i wount trade for the world i dont want a new MMO i want my freinds to come with me.
Forgot to say Champions online looks good but we will see.
I don’t think I would ever quit WoW for necessarily another MMO, but simply because I got bored of WoW. Right now, I am not getting the returns from the game that I used to and, new MMO available or not, I know that shortly I will put an end to my subscription and call it a day.
Down the road, something might come in to replace it. But I personally never stop playing a game because a new twist on an old lemon came and took the flavour away.
i’ve moved on, and FF 14 is going to be MMO, hopfully they learned from there first game, and have more single player content. for now i’m enjoying eve, ace online, OGplanet.com games, IJJI.com games, counter-strike, DoD Source, Demi-God, DoTa, and i have a stack of PS3 games that need finishing (MetalGear4, and Littlebigplanet)
^_^
Hah, that is quite a list of games to knock out of the way. :D
I’ve played wow forever. I’ve done MC40, etc. Right know I play like 2 hours every week. Not because I dislike wow, but because I need a pause.
I’m waiting for Aion. I’ll try that game a bit.
I stopped playing WoW in January, and to be honest I don’t really miss it. I miss the idea of it, but that’s a different topic all together. But like you said Dro, when I look for a new MMO I will be mercilessly comparing it to WoW, because Blizzaard got it right with WoW. I too have high hopes for Old Republic ,mainly because I’m a Star Wars junkie. Bioware seems to understand what makes WoW such a successful MMO. Lets hope any “innovations” they come up with don’t ruin the formula too much.
I’ll be leaving WoW most likely when Heroes of Telara is released. For anyone who doesn’t know about this game please look at it at http://www.heroesoftelara.com or the main fan site http://www.telaratribune.com Its shaping up to be an insanely good game and I think it will compete well with WoW.
But unfortunately HoT doesn’t come out until 2010, so until then I’ll be staying with wow and possibly trying Aion for something new.
EVE online! The Universe Is Yours!
PVP – The entire universe is open to pvp in one way or another. Skill is always > lvl. Often the player who out-thinks his enemy or is better prepared will be the one who wins. Kills and being killed matters too, because you have to work for every ship you fly, which makes every kill all the sweeter.
Teamwork – I doubt there is a more teamwork and coordination based game on the market. Everything in EVE is player driven and created. Empires of thousands of players struggle for control of the universe every day and every player has an affect on that outcome, and every player has the potential to become a ruler of their own empire. The most fun comes from small fleet battles where tactics, communication, and teamwork is required. Internet spaceships is serious business when you’re coordinating a fleet battle between 50-100 players, not to mention the Alliance sieges with over 2000 pilots fighting for control of a system at the same time =)
Guilds – Most of the EVE universe experience is created by player created and controlled corps (guilds). The big ones, with hundreds or thousands of members, are complex and carefully maintained by dozens of people. Some managing industry other finance, others war and pvp, or diplomacy or member relations, recruitment. The opportunities are as varied as a real world government.
Crafting – Nearly all good items are created by players through complex industrial and trading processes. Raw materials are harvested or found, traded, refined, added to blueprints of products which were researched, and made into products that are transported to trade hubs and sold to players. Many players who like this aspect of eve spend their time in research and production, amassing wealth from player commerce, investments in corps, contracts with players, etc.
Out of game integration – Nothing is handed to the player in eve. After a tutorial to get you started, everything you learn comes from either personal experience exploring the universe or from the hard work and experience of other players. There are corps dedicated to helping new pilots in EVE, providing classes and field experience in the many aspects of EVE. Online there are resources for everything you will encounter in EVE and forums where pilots will endlessly debate tactics, ship fittings, and more. EVE will also be the first MMO to be integrated with a console MMO FPS. Dust 514 is in development which will allow players in EVE to hire armies of FPS mercenaries to conquer the resources and strategic positions of rival Alliances and corps.
Solo Content – You can fly solo or with people as you choose. The universe can be experience however you want. Flying with people is more fun, but I’ve seen and fought many successful lone pirates and pilots.
Seamless World – You jump between solar systems as a method of long distance travel. And there are load screens when you interact with space stations. Other than that, the universe is completely seamless.
Customizable UI – CCP does provide a certain degree of in game customization, but third party mods are not supported. In my opinion this hasn’t been a limiting factor, and would actually be detrimental to the game because it would instantly mess with the continual arms race of tactics and ship fittings that players have been perfecting for years in EVE.
A few other good points for EVE
- You “level” even when you’re not online, and at the same rate as everyone else.
- All updates and expansions are free, and a new major expansion comes out twice a year.
- Developers are very active in working with players to improve content
- You can pay for game time with in-game money. Many players are self supported with multiple accounts.
- Multiple accounts and dual-logging is encouraged by the developers.