Hmmm, where to start. I guess this post is meant to be an apology to someone who really really (did I mention really?) doesn’t like me. Back in BC 41/20 was the number one DPS spec for raiding. On the official Hunter forums people were always asking the best spec for DPS for raiding. And the best was without a doubt was BM if you were looking for maximum DPS output.
Now how this person came to hate me has two very different stories. This is how I remember it:
- Whenever someone made a thread asking for the number one DPS spec, this person would come to the thread and tell the person they didn’t have to spec this way, or don’t just spec for Flavor of the Month, etc.
However this person remembers it a different way. This is how they recall it:
- They would make a thread asking for spec equality and he recalls me posting in every one of his threads telling him to just spec 41/20 and shut up about it.
Somewhere along the way they thought I didn’t care if the other specs are all capable of significant DPS. Which isn’t true because having 3 viable specs is good for the class and my support for 41/20 was solely due to it being the best possible DPS a Hunter can bring. I know this because it’s my own opinion. No fact checking needed. :)
On my blog and in-game I will always be the the spec that will bring the absolute best DPS I can. But depending on your goals, this isn’t always necessary. For example, when guilds were trying to beat Brutallus enrage timers, there was little option on what spec a person could be. If you weren’t pulling your weight your guild could wipe. But not everyone was facing Brutallus enrage timers.
It’s important to remember that Naxxramas, Eye of Eternity, Obsidian Sanctum are the Karazhan, Gruul’s, and Magtheridon of Wrath of the Lich King. People could be clearing content as any spec they wanted, truthfully, without it being a hindrance. When we see Uldar and later content enrage timers will most likely become a bigger issue. Mana efficiency is also going to play a bigger role in raid healing again (from the latest blue posts).
The term raider and casual is often debated but rarely answered to a point everyone can agree on. I know Pike doesn’t like the terms at all. But to me, I will always consider a raider (at least a hardcore raider) as a person who is pushing cutting edge content. Karazhan and SSC when BT was available might have been going to a raid instance but was not hardcore raiding. Nerfed TK when Sunwell was out. Or even nerfed Sunwell. But everyone will always have their own definition.
But one thing is for sure. When you are looking to find a guild for progressive content you can almost guarantee their guidelines will ask for people to be the best possible spec they can be. At that may not be what your favorite spec is. But if you enjoy raiding and seeing content when it is new, that is a trade off you have to make. But not everyone has that same mentality. And not everyone is looking to squeeze out every ounce of DPS from their class. They may try to bring the best DPS they can from their spec, which is still commendable as they try to maximize their efficiency of their chosen talents.
But in the end it’s a different mind set. Some people play a spec. Some people play the class. Even BRK (who this post is not about) has specced Survival for raiding for the increased DPS. And to me, that says a lot about him. While his name sake is all about Bestial Wrath he is not immune to what the current top dog (or kitty ba-dum ching) is for raiding DPS. While I would have lumped him with a spec people, it really shows he is about the Hunter and not just a talent tree.
Back to the topic. This person has evidently held a grudge for quite sometime now. I made a similar comment on Twitter a day or so ago about speccing for maximum DPS. And apparently it got a few people talking. Matticus chimed in with some opinions. Brigwyn shared some thoughts. Lassirra did as well. One person commented “This is the most active I’ve seen Twitter in a long time.” And the person in question pretty much went on a rampage sharing is “thoughts” about me. He blocked Matticus for agreeing with me. Lassirra, who had never heard of them before, only saw him going off in a tirade.
I offended him pretty bad during Burning Crusade I guess. Apparently whatever I did stuck with him to this day. I would try to apologize but after reading his thoughts the other day I really don’t think it would change his mind. But for whatever it’s worth I’m sorry that I offended you so badly Mr. You-kn0w-who-you-are.
Well that’s my Friday ramblings. Sorry about the wall of text. Now if you don’t mind, I have a Utgarde Keep to heal. Thoughts, comments, etc. Post!
Well done. This only to goes to show why you have the respect of so many hunters. I applaud you for reaching out to the “Un-named” Hunter. As I’ve stated before, at some point holding gudges such as these, reminds me of High School or Playground politics.
Great post as always! Keep it up!
Brigwyn’s last blog post..20 Questions with Lassirra of The Hunter’s Mark
The thing that really struck me about the whole discussion is that the person in question was very adamant, and not in a good way. There’s a difference between standing behind your opinions/convictions, and outright bashing someone else because they choose to disagree. The animosity was palpable.
Ironically, I was inclined to agree with him to a certain extent regarding spec balance. I do think all three specs should be equally viable in a raid environment (the fact is they’re definitely not, but I think they should be), however, the bile the individual put forth and the ad hominem attacks totally turned me away. It suggested to me that the person wasn’t capable of discussing differing views without getting personal, which isn’t something I enjoy. Also, the fact that this person was clinging to animosity from a year ago didn’t strike me as very healthy, heh.
It’s sad, really. The person’s clearly got a chip on their shoulder, and not just because of you. It seems to me that they’re bitter simply because the spec they wish was performing the best just isn’t. (That’s purely speculation on my part, of course.) Unfortunately, numbers don’t lie, and there is one spec that out-performs others. When people come asking “what’s the best raid spec?”, they’re asking a specific question to which there is a very specific answer. Now, if someone were to ask “which spec should I try?”, there are many possible answers, none of which are necessarily “right”.
Opinions, you can discuss and debate. Facts are black and white. That’s just how it works, whether we like it or not.
Still, I was impressed at your maturity and restraint in the face of such blatant and venomous bad-mouthing. Just shows who was the bigger person, I guess. /shrug
Gawd… ghosts from the old spec flame wars days. 80 percent of why I don’t frequent the hunter forums comes from that time.
As an aside, Brig, I always thought your posts during the old “spec jihad” days were really on point. I wasn’t always 100 percent in agreement, but the attitude you brought to the discussion was a beacon of civility in a sea of self-aggrandizement and acrimony.
I, too, held a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth from TBC. However, simply throwing the same feeling back to the person who sparked it in the first place solves nothing. The only way to get respect from others is to respect them first. Like I said earlier, you do not have to like someone or agree with them to respect them or their views.
Thank you for your respectful, mature outlook on what sounds like a horrific situation. You always write with precision and care, something I’ve respected since I first found your site.
Keep up the good work.
<3 Nass
Nassira’s last blog post..Hunter Discussion Group
Eh, as Twitter- and blog-followers of you both, I gotta say, CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!?! I guess I’m glad I missed the e-fight due to being amazingly busy at work all day.
Awlbiste’s last blog post..Saddlebacked!
@Zeuxis You are so correct. That’s why I’ve never had a second thought about supporting the Lodge. Brig tries his hardest to make it an environment for everyone. And much <3 to him for that. :)
It cracks me up how people can become so passoniate about something as insignificant as a certain spec. Being fairly new to the game I have come to consider myself a “decent” hunter not great by no means but I have learned to play my class to the best of my abilities. The spec doesn’t make the player the player makes the spec is the way I look at it. I enjoyed playing BM just as much as I enjoy going Survival and I am quite sure MM would be just as fun. My job is dps I don’t heal and I don’t tank. Sounds to me like this guy just doens’t like you for whatever reason and that’s sad. You post here to help people improve playing as a Hunter and even if I disagreed with what you happen to say I wouldn’t hold a grudge. Less QQ more Pew Pew says it all.
@Khan: People being passionate about a spec isn’t a bad thing. An MMO is an engrossing experience, and the game you play and how you play it can be important to you. I can see how a lot of people got bent out of shape about their particular play style being relegated to the scrap heap, especially when they’re being told so by people who they KNOW are just parroting something they heard somewhere else. It’s even more infuriating when that parrot is actually right, though they’d be hard pressed to explain why.
I have a *lot* of sympathy for MM types in TBC who were aware of the statistical disparities, stuck with the spec because they liked it and didn’t feel they were in situations which required min/maxing, and had to face legions of detractors. I’m also sympathetic that the situation produced something of a “bunker mentality” in a lot of the MM community. It sounds like this is one of those cases. Doesn’t mean it’s right; just that I can understand how it happened.
@Zeuxis I understand the importance of play style but once again it’s play style. All a matter of opinion and what you feel your role to be. However when you start taking things personal then maybe the game has gotten to much control on you. Play how you want to play is all I am saying, regardless of what spec you run enjoy the game. I find it hard to sympathize with a certain spec, the whole reason for patch updates and bug fixes is to ensure change. All the more power to those MM’ers in TBC, lord knows I’d kill for a MM to join our guild. I’d even go MM if I had a Surv spec’d Hunter in our guild. I guess I find it difficult to become so “bunkered” about being MM, BM or Surv. I will admit I am a parrot, only been in the game for about 3 months now, but I also find it hard to believe someone jumps into this game knowing exactly what to do. So in a way we all are, or once were parrots.
@ Khan – some people just have a difficult time playing certain specs. I know I have a really hard time playing anything other than BM. I tried MM recently and enjoyed it, but not quite as much, and I didn’t really like SV at all. I don’t think anyone would doubt me when I say that I love the class as a whole. You’re talking to someone who calls a level 80 hunter, a level 70 hunter, and a level 39 hunter all her own, and who has every intention of getting getting the 70 and 39 to endgame. However, I can still have a spec preference.
I don’t want to dig too deeply into this topic but suffice to say people do get emotional attachments to a playstyle and I don’t necessarily think it is a bad thing. I do think you need to be aware of the fact that certain progression guilds will often expect you to perform a certain way and that may, in fact, mean you will have to respec to a playstyle you are not fond of. If you have a problem with that, you need to find a guild that will respect your wishes. It may lock you out of a lot of guilds, but that comes with the territory– if you enjoy your spec enough you will work to find that niche guild.
As for me; I am not much of a raider. I really love raiding when I am able to do it, but my schedule and certain other things keep me locked out of it for the most part (this, for the record, is why Drotara mentioned that I do not really like the terms “hardcore” and “casual”– because it’s easy to be “hardcore” at heart but “casual” in theory, or vice versa). Most of what I do is heroic five-mans and as such, it does allow me the freedom to stay spec’d what I enjoy most– BM. Because right now I can do well enough damage for a heroic, even if I am super-nerfed.
If I was in a super progressive raiding guild and I was obviously bringing the group down I’d probably respec for the raid’s benefit. But I’m not in said guild, so I don’t have to. Also, I will be the first to admit that I am running with a gimped spec… I am not trying to deny it =P
Anyhow, I suppose that is just my two cents. I don’t think it reflects badly on anyone that they are spec loyal, or that they aren’t spec loyal. They are just different play styles meant for different things in game. Lately there have been a lot of people on both sides hurling around accusations that people who don’t have a favorite spec aren’t real hunters, or that those who only play one talent tree aren’t real hunters… I dunno, as for myself, if you enjoy playing your hunter then you’re good with me, in my book =) I try to make my own little blog reflect that. There are a lot of hunters and bloggers that I have a lot of respect for, I am pretty unbiased… I love everyone I suppose, haha.
Pike’s last blog post..There Was One She Still Missed, Part Two
Ahh, didn’t mean to crit you all with a wall of text x_x
Pike’s last blog post..There Was One She Still Missed, Part Two
I think I know who the unnamed person is, and the fact that there’s a good chance I’m right without having witnessed any of the goings-on kinda makes me chuckle.
I could be way off base, but I’m gonna venture a guess and say that said person was a staunch supporter of survival before it took the place as the top dps spec, and is upset that they’re not a special little snowflake anymore?
I think the real question is why you’re healing a UK and not dps’ing it :>. On an alt? If so, how do you find healing? I’ve been thinking of leveling up my twink healadin for a change of pace since I’m just really raiding at the moment on my hunter (too lazy to work on other achievements).
@ Zeuxis and Drotara – I cannot say how touch and honored I am by your comments. Thank you. I do try to keep a balanced view and fairly represent the arguments of both sides. In this case I think it has just gone too far for too long.
@Pike – Wall of text or not. Well said!!
@Rhodopsin – I think to keep in in the theme of this post to try and single out and identify the individual would go against that. (Besides.. your guess is incorrect)
brigwyn’s last blog post..20 Questions with Lassirra of The Hunter’s Mark
That’s why I didn’t venture a guess :P
But, can’t blame me for thinking it can you? :P
@heritikyl I have a Priest that I have taken a long time to level with the intent to be a healer. It just so happens that some guildies had alts the same level who were tanks and DPS. :)
While its very important to keep an open mind to others and what they prefer in terms of spec and goals with their gametime, I do find it as important that you keep holding the flag up strong.
Even if you are asked to break tradition and divert from your chosen path its still somewhat suprising that you would do it now – this early in WotLK – now that more eyes than ever are out looking for bloggers with a good sense of common sense when it comes to this game and its mechanics.
As you might have experienced, going in a straight line will often make you crack a few walls (i chose to see it that you’re creating new doorways!), I would like to give you a hand to stand up so you might find the center of your being and once again go forth as a champion of blogs in the ever crusade of hunter.. ehm.. ing!
So to precise my predicament with your post: .. why?.. why would you go and heal in an instance?
.. :)
I gotta say i enjoy this site and reading all hunters opinions about specs,gear,or anything hunter related.I am called old timer in the guild since ive been playing since beta,(original wow)and through out the years hunters have came so far things that i have never thought a hunter could do.I am a Raider and as labeled as one im expected to do what ever is possible to get the most dps out of my character,this has changed as far as specs mainly throughout years i remember MM being the sh** with aimed shot lol then came BM spec and SV now my personal expierence in WOLK SV is the spec for raiding and i just few weeks ago changed my spec i cant be happier with the outcome on the meter and i love the gameplay.Anyways keep up the good work Drotara and all the others
Horde for Life
Maz
While I did not witness anything that went on I can say that an apology probably was not warranted. Just from the description of this person the heartfelt (and again not needed) apology will most likely fall on deaf ears. :( With that being said, good show Dro. I respect someone who can be the bigger person and extend the olive branch when you really probably wanted to extend that same branch over his head.
I can totally dig someone being passionate about their class or spec. But to suggest that it is somehow “yours” and now everyone is muddying it up by going with it is just stupid and silly. Unfortunately, I’m seeing way too much elitism and prejudice when it comes to this sort of thing.
I play my hunter because I love the class. The specs to me are secondary. I will always go with the spec that gives me the most output of dps possible regardless if it happens to be “TFOM”.
Keep up the great work Dro, Lass, BRK and others. Your blogs have been a great source of information to all of us!
posting in the wow forums always tends to bring drama, if i am concious i ll never post there again as some people – the so called keyboardgangsters – act to immature.
nice writting and gz to get the motivation for your alt…its a pain in the ass for me :*
I think I know who the other hunter was…
Either way, it was good of you to acknowledge that you offended him.
I frequent the forums, and normally try to remain out of things if at all possible. There are gems in the rough sometimes, but more often than not, it’s chaff and QQ. But if there are ways to voice an opinion without offending others.
I think that there are a few truths for this game. First, that it is impossible for our three talent trees to be balanced, and that one will always surpass another. Second, that it is indeed your $15 and you should spend it how you feel like. This doesn’t give anyone the right to be an ass-hat, but it happens anyway.
This means there will always be an optimal spec, but that people will play how they wish despite that. Whether your goal is to see endgame content and pull your weight, or just to enjoy playing the way you wish, it’s what you will do.
By telling other people that their way of playing is worse, that person will likely become hostile, and I don’t think this is any different.
What can be done, however, is to suggest, not tell. Suggest an alternate way to play, and it will be their decision, not yours. If they don’t like it, then they will continue to do what they were going to do anyway, and there’s no drama.
I personally try to suggest help with whatever their playstyle is. If they want to be a beastmaster, who am I to say they can’t be? I will tell them how to best play with their resources. If they want to be the best DPS, it’s a different question. I would then tell them what the top spec is, as that is what they wanted.
If that made any sense, I’m impressed with myself.
Klinderas’s last blog post..Big Bear Butt Blues!
I think I know who that other hunter is, and I remember the bitterness from over nearly a a year ago now. I must confess that I’ve allowed myself to get caught up in some bitterness with that hunter and another MM blogger recently, as the hunter in question was rejoicing in the BM nerfs.
I know some here, especially Pike, did not appreciate my comments, and for those I apologize.
I admire the dedication that the MM community from those days have to their spec. But to me, that dedication created a bunker mentality, and now that BM has been brought down, some revel in that, and others deride those of us that move to another spec, saying that we aren’t true to our spec.
So I’ll just ask this… what is more important.. being a certain spec, or, being a hunter?
Fearstalker -
I always apprecaite comments. Just because I disagree with something somebody said, does not mean I appreciate them and their contributions any less! No need to apologize /hug <3
Pike’s last blog post..Old Banner Plus Color Equals…
Nice post and I really made me think a little more on helping hunters new and old. I spec’d BM from 10-70 and was “forced” to drop it for the higher dps and better traps (meeemories!) in the MM/Surv tree. I was really upset to lose that feel of BM that I got. I tamed my cat at 10 and kept him all the way up to 70. Soloing became harder and I whined some, I admit. But I came to love MM. Now reading the numbers I’m strongly considering spec’ing Surv, plus it’s always nice to try something new. I’m scared tho. Not because of regemming or respec’ing, but learning the new shot rotation. I just learned the “new” MM way and have it down to a T and even out dpsing my class leader in guild some days. :D
But your post really made me think “Why the heck not?” To be a better player, play with the trees. Spec points in something you think is just okay and you might find it’s better than you thought. I know I’ve looked over something before only to *headdesk* later once I figured it out.
Sorry someone got upset over the numbers. While I’m not a huge fan of theroycrafting (I just enjoy figuring it all out) I do respect those that theroycraft because they have numbers backing it up. They break down the hows and whys for the rest of us to maximize our dps.
Hats off and hopefully the Nameless Hunter can read this and move forward.
Well, I checked out the blog in question. Wow. I read one post, and determined the dude is an asshat. What he seems to want is for HIS spec to be the best, with no consideration for other people.
I get the $15 theory, what people forget is that we all have the $15 dollar theory. I have a right NOT to want to group with you due to your stubborn insistance on playing a subpar spec.
BC sucked, in that there was 1 raid viable dps spec. If you weren’t in it, you gave the apperance of ignorance, whether it was by choice or not. LK started the same, now Surv is dominant, but MM is close enough that it can be justified, particularly in a Hunter heavy raid.
Blizz has been working at balancing hunter specs, but it’s not like we are the only pure-dps class that has a dominant spec. Perfect balance is simply impossibly, given that the 3 specs would have to be balanced not only against each other, but all specs of other classes in both PvE and PvP, all environments. Not gonna happen.
I loved BM, but now I’m loving the new set of challenges of raiding Surv. Honestly, in my opinion blatantly refusing to change specs and trying to get Blizz to ‘fix’ your chosen spec is detrimental.
Remua’s last blog post..3.0.8, Day ewww
I’ve spent a bunch of gold respecing between all three trees. You want to know the biggest difference? Plugging in different shots when the old ones go blank.
Hunters are all, Send Pet, PewPew.
There is not as big an adjustment as people think. Everybody keeps a Sting on Target, everybody Marks their target, everybody keeps their pet alive and on target.
Everything else is either fact or flavor. Sometimes it bums me out to see BM vs MM vs SV bitch fests. I’d rather have sweet sweet Mage tears QQ in the Hunter forums.
(which is a sham, Mages are sandbagging in order to get all Hunters nerfed. So far it’s working ;)
Way too ruin the anonymity. Can’t expect too much from the Internetz, I suppose.
Neggles’s last blog post..Hunter Chit-Chat
Or I could just late to the game.. meh. >.<
Neggles’s last blog post..Hunter Chit-Chat
Wow what a wall of txt. I like the fact that the mechanics change from time to time, breaks up the monotony. As for myself, I’m still a BM hunter but then I have a causal play style (the kids kind of force me to). I would mind trying other specs for fun, but I’m not required to from my guild. I think you need to have an open mind as to how you spec. BRK was a great example, makes the game more fun to play.
Aoirselvar’s last blog post..I’ve been tagged – 6th Screenshot
I’m with Pike; BM talents are just more fun to me. I have no doubt I would top DPS meters as Survival in the current climate, but why should I? I’m not in a “hardcore” guild, I pull my weight and even top meters on occasion, so I don’t see a reason to respec. Having said that, I always keep up with what the the other specs so I can give guildies good advice, and not just a biased opinion toward BM.
Phyllixia’s last blog post..Gluth kiting: Rounds two and three
I have been out of WoW since the beginning of LK, and just now hitting Naxx/EoE/OS content finally with my guild.
Two things I can say about the change-over in DPS superiority from BM to SV:
- It’ll be nice to play SV finally OUTSIDE of PVP. I was MM from 1 to ~65, and BM from ~65 to 70 (T5 and T6 clears).
- It will be REALLY nice to shave a few years off of the countdown to carpal tunnel syndrome caused by almost an entire year of constantly spamming Steady Shot with my left pointer finger.
Oh, thank god for that one!